王端廷

　　中国艺术研究院研究员

　　美术评论家

　　时间：2015年10月11日

　　地点：北京798方圆美术馆“执纸转承-1989-2015顾黎明纸上绘画作品展”雅昌圆桌访谈

　　记者：陈奕名(雅昌)

　　采访人：王端廷(中国艺术研究院研究员、博士生导师、美术评论家)

　　问：如何看待他在中国美术史上的这样一个发展脉络的地位？

　　答：张晓凌先生说顾黎明在艺术创作上有两种倾向，一种是具象的，还有一种是抽象的。但在我看来，顾黎明的创作几乎都是具象的，我觉得他的绘画属于“观念绘画”，更准确地说，叫“文化波普”。“文化波普”的意思就是利用传统文化图像进行创作，实际上，顾黎明的创作是对传统文化图像进行挪用、复制和再造的成果。他的早期抽象作品的图像来源是马王堆出土的文物，实际上我们能看得出来那是一些马王堆出土的衣服的形状；他在90年代开始创作的潍坊年画杨家埠门神系列，其实也是对现成品的挪用。也就是说，他的绘画描绘的都不是自然界的物象，而是一些来自现成品的图像。实际上，他的杨家埠门神系列是绘画的绘画，他所创作的山水是山水画的山水，它不是一手山水，而是二手山水。他所谓的抽象绘画其实是现成品以另一种形式的呈现，实际上，他的作品是对现成图像的简化。他的这种观念性绘画，比如说他的文化波普绘画，体现了中国同类创作的一些共同的特性。西方的波普艺术本质上是现成品的挪用，但是西方波普绘画更多的是机械复制，比如沃霍尔的绘画就是通过照相制版、丝网印刷进行的图像复制，而我们中国当代艺术家发明了一种手工图像复制技术。中国当代艺术家普遍采用手工复制图像技术，这是什么原因呢？我也考察了一下，第一个原因就是中国当代艺术家都是来自美术学院，他们都是学画出身的，绘画是他们天生的技能，他们不愿意放弃这种技能，于是他们便通过这种技能把西方的观念艺术运用于他们的绘画创作，形成了这样一种特别的观念艺术风格。第二是因为中国的文化波普艺术与西方的波普艺术在功能和目的方面也有着巨大的差异。西方的波普艺术都是带有批判性的，是一种纯粹的观念表达；而中国的文化波普艺术，例如我们看到的顾黎明的作品，它是带有抒情性的，也就是在批判性之外加上了抒情性。抒情性与观念性本来是两个艺术领域里的东西，抒情是来自心的，而观念是来自脑的，但这两种互不相干，甚至互相对立的因素在中国当代艺术中实现了融合和统一，形成了一种新的艺术面貌。

　　实际上，顾黎明的全部艺术作品既有观念性，同时又有抒情性。也就是说，他的艺术是观念性和抒情性的混合体。

　　对于顾黎明来说，他有一种东西始终没有变，那就是对中国传统文化之根的坚守，或者说，他的艺术始终都没有脱离传统文化的文脉，是对传统艺术的一种当代转换。

　　顾黎明的人生已跨入五十，对于很多人，这是一个回顾过去、总结成绩的时间。但我认为，对于艺术家来讲，五十岁左右还不是盖棺定论的时候;对于顾黎明而言，他艺术还有进一步发展的空间。齐白石衰年变法，对于顾黎明这一代艺术家，五十左右岁可能也是一个新的起点。所以，我们应当肯定他已经取得的成就，同时也对他的未来抱有更多期待。

　　问：我们背后这幅作品应该是顾黎明老师10多年前创作的作品吧？

　　答：十三年前的作品。

　　问：这样的一个山水跟一层展区的一个山水是有一个在语言上的延续的，像顾老师这样的一个艺术风格是那个时候中国式的抽象，跟西方式的抽象是有差别的，您觉得像把山水融入这样的一个抽象艺术当中的创作或者说是重新把它解构，抑或是刚才也谈到把西方的和中国的很多传统文化重新去混合、去体现当代的纠结，您认为这样一种抽象的创作方式在整个全球或者说中国的美术史上它会有一个新的突破或者什么样的位置？

　　答：中国当代艺术家利用传统文化资源进行创作和再创作有很多途径和办法。中国传统的山水画讲究的是气韵，这就是作品的精神层面；在语言层面强调的是笔墨。而顾黎明的山水画，无论是精神还是语言，都与传统山水画大有不同。在他的山水画中，气韵被转换成了他说的一种焦虑抑或是一种纠结，我觉得更多的是一种韵味，但这又是西方抽象绘画所没有的东西；在语言上，他追求的是肌理效果，而这对于中国绘画又是一个新概念，我们中国传统绘画是不讲究肌理的，肌理是油画的概念。顾黎明把油画的概念特别是西方现代抽象油画语言形式上的东西嫁接到中国传统山水里面了，从而形成了一种新的绘画面貌。

　　Integration of Concepts and Emotions

　　Wang Duanting

　　Researcher of Chinese National Academy of Arts;

　　Art Critic

　　Time: October 11th, 2015

　　Place: Artron Roundtable Interview on "Succession & Reform-Gu Liming's Works on Paper 1989-2015" in FANG-YUAN Art Gallery of Beijing 798 Art District

　　Interviewer: Chen Yiming from Artron Art Group

　　Interviewee: Wang Duanting researcher of Chinese National Academy of Arts, PhD supervisor, arts theorist

　　Question: How to position him (Gu Liming) in Chinese history of arts?

　　Answer: According to Mr. Zhang Xiaoling, there are generally two trends involved in Gu Liming’s arts creation, namely the figurative and abstract tendencies. Yet in my opinion, all the works of Gu Liming are practically figurative and belong to "conceptual paintings" or, to be more exact, "cultural pop", which means producing arts by employing traditional cultural images. Actually, Gu's art is created by borrowing, duplicating and re-creating traditional elements. The images of his early abstract works derive from relics unearthed in Mawangdui Han Tombs and we can even identify that some are imitations of the ancient clothes discovered then. Since the 1990s, he began to work on New Year Paintings of Door Gods series, which again are borrowed from the existing printings of Yangjiabu village in Weifang city. In other words, it is artificial art images, instead of natural things, that constitute the objects of his works. To be specific, his Door Gods series are recreations of the existing art forms and the mountains and rivers depicted by him in fact originate from the well-accepted landscape paintings but not real natural scenes. His so-called abstract-style painting is another way of presenting the finished art products and even a simplification of them. His conceptual paintings or cultural pop paintings have embodied similar traits featuring Chinese art works of the same genre. By nature, pop art in the western world intends to borrow images from art products, but it is more of mechanical replications. For example, paintings by Warhol are images copied through photo-mechanical process and screen printing. By contrast, artists in contemporary China have innovated a manual technique to duplicate pictures, a commonplace technique that is frequently utilized. Why? I think there are two reasons. First, most Chinese contemporary artists graduate from academies of fine arts with an education background of painting, a skill in which they excel. Reluctant to give up their trained skills, they, therefore, apply western art concepts to their paintings, resulting in a unique style of conceptual art. Second, in terms of function and purpose, there remains a huge difference between Chinese pop arts and that of the west. The western pop art is critical and it is a pure expression of concepts, while the Chinese pop art, as we can see in Gu’s works, is not only critical but also lyrical. Lyricism and concept are from two different art fields: lyricism comes from heart while concept from brain. These contrasting elements, which embrace no intersections, have achieved integration and harmony in contemporary Chinese art, contributing to a formation of new artistic image.

　　In fact, all the artworks by Gu Liming are both conceptual and lyrical. That is to say, his art is the integration of the two.

　　For Gu, his persistence in the roots of Chinese traditional culture has never changed. To put it in another way, his art has never been isolated from the context of traditional culture and is a contemporary transformation of traditional art.

　　Gu Liming is into his fifties, the age to look back and enjoy the glorious accomplishments for many people. However, as far as I am concerned, the age of 50 years old is far from the time of final judgement on the artist. There are still great potentials for Gu's artistic pursuits. Qi Baishi reformed his painting style even when he was quite old and for artists of Gu’s generation, the age of 50 could be a new starting point. In this way, we ought to think highly of his present achievements and at the same time harbor more expectations for his further development in art.

　　Question: The work behind us was painted by Mr. Gu Liming over a decade ago?

　　Answer: 13 years up to now.

　　Question: There exists certain consistency between this landscape painting and the one exhibited in the first floor in terms of artistic language. Gu's art was Chinese style of abstract art at that time, which was different from that of the west. Gu depicts landscape in this abstract form. Or we can say, he deconstructs it. Or you just mentioned the integration of western art concepts and traditional Chinese cultural elements to describe modern worries. Do you think that this abstract style could be viewed as a breakthrough or what position should it take in global or Chinese history of art?

　　Answer: There are quite a few means and methods available for contemporary Chinese artists to make use of traditional cultural resources to create or recreate. Traditional Chinese paintings devote particular care to the qiyun or charm, an artistic concept in spiritual level, and the use of ink in terms of artistic language. Gu’s landscape works are quite different from the traditional ones. In his paintings, artistic concept has been transformed into anxiety or struggle as he said, or a lingering charm in my opinion. This cannot be found in western abstract works. As for language, he pursues texture effect, which is a new concept for Chinese painting. The texture, a concept employed in the western oil painting, is not stressed in our traditional art. Gu has transplanted concepts in oil paintings, in particular language expressions of modern western paintings, into traditional Chinese landscape works, thus forming a new artistic style.